Click to read a whole lot more coverage and lots of comments about the debates between Republican challenger Dick DeVos and Democratic Governor Jennifer Granholm.
The Freep reports that Michigan's Gubernatorial candidates will debate three times in October. Also check out this Detroit News article that delves into details from the 10-page debate agreement like podium heights, what has to be in the dressing rooms and backdrop colors. 10 pages??
Monday, October 2 (8-9 PM)
Monday's debate will be broadcast on WKAR-TV (MSU). The format will be "free-wheeling question and answer session". It will be available live to all Michigan public television stations, on WJBK-TV (FOX Channel 2) and available to other Fox stations.
UPDATE OCTOBER 3RD: It certainly was "free-wheeling" with (in the words of the Freep) charges and countercharges about the honesty of their TV ads, international trade, taxes, abortion, his tax returns and her ability to bring jobs to Michigan. Their "What the Voters Said" feature seems to suggest, however, that few minds were changed by the debate, something borne out in the comments below and also in this Detroit News article about the debate. Want to see what others are saying? How about a Google blog search for "Granholm Devos Debate"?
If you missed it, you can watch the first debate on the WKAR-TV web site.
Debate 2006 at the WOOD TV 8 studios
Photo by Beth and Christian
Part of a Debate 2006 Set!
Tuesday, October 10 (8-9 PM)
The second debate will be broadcast by WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids and WDIV-TV (Local 4) from WOOD-TV's studio and will be available to NBC affiliates. It is billed as a more structured and traditional debate. UPDATE: The debate will air at the original time of 8 PM! (Freep story)
UPDATE OCTOBER 11TH Those who weren't tuned into Tigers/A's Game 1 saw a more structured meeting between the two major candidates for Governor that was nonetheless hostile. Republican Dick DeVos opened with "I learned a few things in the first debate. What happened was I saw the governor of the state of Michigan look straight into the camera and lie to the people of Michigan" while the Democratic Governor countered later with "We need a governor who stands up to President Bush and not one who writes him a seven-figure campaign check". (Detroit News)
There were some items of interest including DeVos's off-the-cuff proposal to eliminate the personal property tax (which brings in $1.5 billion in revenue) and his claim of support for Michigan's abortion laws as they stand. (Detroit Free Press)
You can decide for yourself who won (if you had other things to do) and watch the archive of the Second Michigan Gubernatorial Debate at WOOD-TV. You might also want to try a search of blog articles about the 2nd Debate. Post your comments below!
Monday, October 16 (8-9 PM)
The final debate was held at at WXYZ-TV (Channel 7) in Southfield will include questions from a studio audience of undecided, independent voters in a town hall format. You can view the archived video of the 3rd Michigan Governor Debate at WXYZ-TV / Detroit Now.
350 Comments
Help---our cable just went out. can you provide a list of radio stations in The Thumb carrying the debates?
Sorry we weren't here to help, Charles! I hope you tried searching for "radio" on Absolute Michigan. One of the featured links under radio & TV is Michiguide.com, a comprehensive guide to Michigan radio stations.
I think DeVos just repeated his same rhetoric. He talks a good game about jobs and those who are out of jobs are listening. But, I implore Michiganders to really critique his campaign. He has good ads, but tonight he showed that he really doesn't understand the issues. There are other issues facing Michigan such as health care, education, and crime. These areas DeVos gave little to convince voters that he is the man to deal with these issues. I thought Granholm did a wonderful job and she has my vote. She has brought jobs to Michigan and she has made significant improvements.
does DeVos always talk like a preacher man?
My goodness. I wasn't a DeVos or Granholm fan prior to this debate, but the girl gov certainly mopped the floor with soap boy. I expected more, but was entertained nonetheless.
Wow! Didn't DeVos have the same manorisms as Bush? No plan, no answers and he even got hung up while speaking. Where was the great leader he claims to be? Shouldn't he be able to stand up to the person he says he is better than? Granholm ran all over him. At one point I actually felt sorry for him.
DeVos revealed his inner rat, beady-eyed and nervous. Granholm is a pro and has the brains and charm to pull this state out of the Engler-hole. What's with Tim Skubic heckling only the gov?
I'm a Republican, but I'm willing to admit, DeVos needs to articulate his ideas and his roadmap better; lots of talk and not much substance.
Tim Skubic was downright rude to Gov. Granholm. He consistently talked over her answers to his questions, plus he allowed DeVos to preach on and evade giving direct answers to questions. DeVos never did answer why he hasn't released his 2005 tax return. What's he hiding?
Dick Devos most certainly acted like a door salesman with his sleezy attitude and his saleman-like approach. He beat around the bush on every single question, whereas Granholm was strong and confident. Granholm has great policies to be advocated, but we need a Democratic Majority Leader to help her with the implementation.
I'm not voting for an eloquent speaker, I'm voting for someone who will bring changes to Michigan and get us in the market again. Granholm hasn't kept half of her promises and yes, she did speak well but talk is not something I am looking for, action is. DeVos may not have done well in the debate but it's the way he will change the economy in Michigan that interests me.
Exactly how would Granholm know that Michigan has the best workers in the world? We have the highest unemployment rate in the country (actually we are tied with Mississippi, whose unemployment can be largely attributed to a Hurricane!)
Can our current Govenor really campaign on a platform of her aggressive drive to bring work back to Michigan, when she has an utterly unacceptable track record of bringing business to Michigan? Only one mention has been made of the jobs she has brought to Michigan - approx. 300 jobs,because Toyota has committed to building in Michigan. Exactly how is that an accomplishment?! At that rate, she would have to remain governor for another 20 years to bring back to Michigan that which she drove away through bad policy positions like, supporting the Single Business Tax and irresponsibly supporting the City of Detroit (financially rewarding the city's gross mismanagement, inefficient fiscal policies and unfair business practices). She does not support equal state representation on the Detroit Water Board but does support Detroit's desire to charge Detroit residents less for water than their suburb neighbors.
Combine that with her complete failure on the international front illustrated by her team's fruitless trips to Europe and Asia in search of Michigan investors; not only would Honda not take her team's meeting, but it commited to invest multiple millions in our neighboring Ohio!
Please do not be swayed by the campaign promises. Granholm is pandering for votes. She has failed at implementing her campaign promises from four years ago and does not have the initiative, the necessary legislative support or the national respect to aggressively lead Michigan. She is reactive in her policies and calculating in her positions.
I shutter to think about the damage her administration will do if allowed a second term without concern for re-election.
Laura,
Most of Michigan's lost jobs are from the auto industry. How are you going to hold Granholm accountable for their lousy performance? Would more business tax cuts have changed the fact that no one wants to buy gas-guzzling SUVs and pick-up trucks these days?
Seems like DeVos has the same plan as Granholm; building up Michigan's infrastructure, investing in research and higher learning, etc. The difference is that he wants to do all this while cutting business taxes even more (even though Michigan already has the lowest business taxes in the midwest). How's he going to pay for everything he wants to do? We've seen how spending more while taxing less is working on the national level, now this country has the biggest debt ever! Do we want the same thing for Michigan?
I believe DeVos thought that his run for the governor's office would be a "walk in the park" because the encumbent is female and that She would be "easy prey";but since the first debate i think that even Mr. DeVos Himself is re-evaluating as to whether or not He is better for the job.He is sooooo unprepared and uninformed.
I'm afraid that DeVos came across as a baublehead that just kept repeating the word "leadership." He gave few specifics and seemed to try to hide behind his vapid smile and corporate image. He'll replace the SBT with a tax on business? C'mon, Dick what does that mean? Cut 2 billion in taxes and jeopardize services and programs and that's your plan?
The governor is certainly more polished in her delivery than DeVos but after watching the debate and listening to her I had to wonder "is she responsible for anything that happens in this state?" All of Michigan's economic woes were someone else's fault. The problems in the corrections department were the result of someone else's doing. The problems that resulted in the Ricky Holland death came because of something someone else did.
Granted, she is a gifted communicator, but I really want someone who will lead this state in an upward direction. Someone who will take responsibility for the problems at hand and say this is where we are, it doesn't matter what the circumstances were that got us here, we need to figure out how we move forward.
I was really hoping that the governor would do that last night. While hope may spring eternal, I'm beginning to think that she will never take ownership of the problems the state has and work to address them. Michigan needs more jobs, a more diversified economy and better leadership. Broad platitudes on the subjects will not cut it any more. I think we need results and we just are not getting them from Jennifer Granholm.
Jennifer Granholm is a fantastic speaker. If this was her first time running for the office, she would have my vote. She seems to have all the right answers and is clear and concise. Dick DeVos, on the other hand, seems like a typical "beat around the bush" kind of politition. I really have no idea what his plans are. He seems to be pulling answers out of the air. What is his plan anyway???? The big problem here is that Granholm talks a big game but has a lousy track record and DeVos stumbles too much when asked about his plans. I am one republican who is not looking forward to this election. Regardless of which one wins, I think Michigan will be the loser this time.
I was disturbed by how cavalier DeVos was when questioned about his investment in a chain of nursing homes that were accused of patient abuse and neglect. Unless he wanted to convey the message that he cares more about lining his own pockets than he does about the abuse of elderly citizens, then "turned out to be a bad investment as well" was probably not the best response.
I might not like everything that Governor Jennifer has done, but I strongly feel that she is exactly what the State of Michigan needs. Mr DeVos it is always easier to be on the outside looking in, Engler left this state in such a mess, and it will take time to correct. I still have no idea what Mr DeVos plans are, and so far he has not shown me with negative ads that he is capable of leading our state. Go Jennifer !!
What’s with Tim Skubic heckling only the gov? my question too.
Granholm clearly came out a winner last night. I was pretty shocked at DeVos's inability to go on the offensive. His so called plans are all talk. He has no idea how to replace the SBT revenue. To steel a quote from the republican playbook, I guess he plans to "cut and run". Maybe he plans to fund the loss revenue himself!
How can his business success, for which he admits to having cut 1400 jobs in Michigan, translate into governing success? They are very different ballgames.
I was looking forward to an interesting and lively debate last night and was disappointed. I was extremely disappointed in both sides. Many people may feel that Devos lost the debate because Granholm was more articulate, but I feel they both lost.
Dick couldn't make a coherent statement thoughout and certainly didn't give us anything idea as to how he would help Michigan. Jennifer was simply vile. She took cheap shots and refused to take any responsiblity for the condition of this State. When she made the comment about nursing homes I was disgusted. Was she accusing Devos of molesting and abusing the elderly? If so, this race has left all
civility behind. I for one am voting Libertarian this time. Michigan will remain in trouble for the next for years no matter which of these two wins.
Dicky D just wants to be on top of the ultimate currupt Pyrimid scheme..state government.
William, I didn't see Governor Granholm as accusing or implying DeVos of being directly responsible for what happened in those nurisng homes. I don't think anybody believes there is a direct connection there.
However, this is all part of a larger issue . . . that DeVos misrepresents and hides his investments and connections. According to this Freep article, the DeVos family did have the power to exert more control over the company, Alterra, that owned the nursing homes. It play into a trust issue.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....0661003013
DeVos was shaky at best last night and can't provide the vision or solid ideas that would make you want to vote for him. It's all hollow sound bites with him.
DeVos keeps talking about leadership & experience when the fact is he was born on third base and thinks he hit a tripple. Does anyone realy think this guy could work his way to the top?? He could hardly talk with out using some canned line from the stump. It was clear he has no plan for anything just complaints.
Jennifer Granholm did a good job in the first debate. The collapse of the American Automobile industry can only be blamed on the big three. Thier only concern is corporate profit not jobs for the people of Michigan. Maybe if they produced a resonably priced, dependable car that got good gas milage they could compete with Japan. Almost everything in our stores is made in Asia. I have two American cars out of loyalty. Have you tried to find clothing made in America? We need to support ourselves and buy American. Dick Devos is Big Business, he has never wanted for anything in his life. I'm voting for Jennifer Granholm
if you're looking for info, check this pdf/website out ... (summary on page 67 and 68)
http://www.devosforgovernor.co.....ndPlan.pdf
no other comment ...
PjAndy,
I completely concur with the sentiment behind your question, "Would more business tax cuts have changed the fact that no one wants to buy gas-guzzling SUVs and pick-up trucks these days?"
More big business tax cuts would have absolutely no affect on the consumer's choice of transportation.
The reason for that is, quite simply, supply and demand. The Big Three supplies the automobiles the customer wants to purchase. Michigan's economic woes have nothing to do with "the fact that no one wants to buy gas-guzzling SUVs and pick-up trucks these days" – because people DO want to drive gas-guzzling SUVs and pick-up trucks.
Ultimately, though, this is no relevance whatsoever in the race for Governor or either candidates abilities.
We can only know, for certain, that which has occurred. We only know what Granholm has accomplished thus far, and how many of her campaign promises came to fruition. Based upon that, can we believe she possesses the necessary ability and influence to accomplish her promises during this election campaign?
I suppose we could, if we are also willing to accept her contention that the challenges faced by Granholm's administration really are not her responsibility because someone else is to blame for them, (Governor Engler, President Bush, L. Brooks Patterson, etc.)
Or, perhaps it is the fault of those "gas-guzzling SUVs and pick-up truck" drivers. The very same drivers that spend their money purchasing cars and trucks produced by the Big Three, pay the most in gas taxes, purchase American made products and support Michigan workers.
Last Sunday's episode of Extreme Home Makeover did more in the way of showing the depth of character and strong work ethic of Michigan's citizens and workers than Granholm has done in her entire political career.
Why does Granholm blame Engler?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....40572/1122
"The DeVos campaign's catchy claim that Michigan has lost one job for every 20 minutes under Granholm is quasi-misleading on a couple of counts:
* It cherry-picks survey data for the numbers most damaging to Granholm.
* And it conveniently fails to mention that the vast majority of Michigan's job losses since the employment peak of mid-2000 occurred not while Granholm was governor but during the final 2 1/2 years of Republican John Engler's administration."
Grow up, people. It's a big world out there and 3 years is not enough time to turn around an economy more dependent on auto manufacturing than any other. Rather than stupid "tax breaks" that stick $100 in most of our pockets (and cause deficits to soar), the Governor has developed a comprehensive, long term plan that allocates money to:
* Improving our educational system
* Attracting new businesses like Google to Michigan
* Encouraging businesses to expand in Michigan
I've read Dick DeVos's Turnaround Plan, Mark, and it has a lot of good ideas in it. The only problem is, the man who is selling us those good ideas made his personal fortune in a company that is one of the most hated in human history because it tricks people out of their money. He has also worked tirelessly to protect outsourcing and set up international trade structures that benefit multinational corporations and send American jobs to China and elsewhere.
My vote is a statement that I trust the candidate to work on behalf of me and on behalf of Michigan. Dick DeVos has demonstrated time and time again that he is focused on working for Dick DeVos.
Since we're sharing links, how about this one:
http://www.granholmforgov.com/
Laura:
I don't know if the fact that FOX news agrees with me is a good thing or a bad thing, but this article shows that auto sales are way down among the big 3:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201955,00.html
If the auto industry was doing well, the lay-offs which have hit Michigan the hardest probably wouldn't have happened. The relevance of this is that most of MI's lost jobs are a result of the poor performance of the auto industry, which is something the governor has little control over, and which more business tax cuts wouldn't have changed.
I have read the previous comments. Two things are obvious. The media frames the election and Michigan citizens need to learn how to spell. Facts are obviously unimportant in all and any discussion. The governor was rude and manipulative throughtout the debate as she interrupted continously and dramatized untruths to mask real issues....We will all be the losers if she is elected again.
dear editor,
i wish to pose a question to not only the current and possible governor, but to all politicians in power. In Michigan, we have a saying, "there are only two seasons in Michigan, winter and construction." Each year commuters have to endure progressively worse traffic congestion, wasting untold gallons of gas simply idling. Add the man hours spent waiting in traffic, and we get a truly awesome amount of waste. I won't even go into the environmental, moral, and safety issues of traffic. Los Angles can serve as an example of what can happen when traffic get out of hand. My question is this: what are you going to do in the long term to solve this problem?
I was appalled at DeVos' presentation. I felt as if Bush had donned a DeVos mask. Inarticulate, no grasp of specific facts, but he memorized the talking points, "leadership, jobs, businessman". But he claims he will surround himself with those who are experts and who can guide him. Sound familiar (Cheney, Rumsfeld)?
I believe I will move from Michigan if I have to have an average president and an average governor.
I did not think Granholm's point regarding Alterra was well made, however, just that fact that DeVos has millions to invest in one company (not to mention all his other investments) tells me he has no idea what I or any other middle class citizen is facing. When he talks about cutting fat from State government, he's talking about the unemployment or medicaid many people survive on between their jobs. Mr. DeVos will take this country far to the right and I do not believe that would be beneficial to any of the jobless or struggling employed.
I am an Independent, I will vote for who I believe is the best candidate. I was totally turned off by Jennifer Grahholm in the debates. She does not take responsibility for anything, it is everybody else's fault. I was anything but impressed with the job DeVos did as well, he left a lot to be desired, that is for sure!
Some forward planning by all Michigan politicians regardless of party affiliation years ago could have avoided a lot of this now. You have no mass transit to speak of (I am from a great mass transit state and coming here and seeing the way things are was quite a shock after what I was used to). It should have been obvious not to put all your eggs in one (auto industry) basket. I could go on but the point is, you are where you are, now what are you going to do?
I campaigned for Kerry because I really do not like the Bush administration, but there is no way on earth I am going to vote for Granholm. I spent some time working in Detroit and saw just how it is there. I can't believe you guys re-elected Kwame, I was just dumbfounded about that one, one question...why? I am not even going to go into how corrupt the City government is, they would probably try to sue me. And again, the blame everybody else tactic was rife there and I really don't want to hear that.
Anyway, I am here because of my husband's job and hoping the economic climate in this state will improve so I might actually start liking it here instead of wishing my husband's employer would move to another state so I can get out of here.
At this point since I consider voting Libertarian a waste of my vote, I will hold my nose and vote for DeVos, but I won't be happy about it! This state had a 6.7 unemployment rate when I moved out here in 1997, in the middle of a boom time, so you could not blame the economy then. Right now the national UI is 4.6% yet we are tied for last at 7.1% with MS which is like that because of Hurricane Katrina. I might laugh and say what a joke this state is, except if you live here it is not very funny. If I get the chance to leave, I will do it in a heartbeat.
I hope this doesn't come off as mean or nasty, I am just posting an honest opinion.
I was looking for a change in this state and was leaning towards Devos but after the debate I was completely back to supporting the Governor Granholm. Everything is focused on jobs... and yes she has not been that successful but there is more too it. Our economy on the east side of the state is greatly dependent on the Automotive Industry and the Unions which the Governor has limited control on an international company. If Michigan employees are highly skilled workers, why is the quality poor? Could it be higher wages cut into the product quality? The Germans have skilled labors but their cars are much more expensive! Can you build a cheap quality car with expensive labor and product? I believe a lot of turning around Michigan’s economy falls on those responsible in the auto industry, which are the Union leaders and Automotive Executives.
Anyway, I was looking for straight answers especially when Devos was asked about Proposal A and property tax.. Which his politician answer of I can't focus on that when people don't have jobs answer is just a garbage.
So.. it’s like the presidential debate, pick the lesser evil..
This is a no brainer for me, We where promised the world when Granholm ran for office four years ago, she was going to turn Michigan around and bring our economy back to life. Bottom line is She hasnt! Besides the automotive industry I see Factories closing all over the state and all Granholm does is blame others, She was left a poor economy ( should have beeen upfront about that during her last campaign), Going to fix our healhcare system, So far no improvement (we are still paying the tab for the uninsured and those who abuse the system). We need a change, I dont care if Devos is as articulate as Granholmas long as he can get the job done and if he doesnt well fire him in four years. Look we are at the botom of the barrel while the rest of the country is humming along, we are loosing jobs and students to other states that have their act together. Lets throw the bum out and give Devos a chance!!! Hes got my vote, I already know what Granholm is capable of, Blameing everyone else!
Please!!! You can't honestly be thinking of having debate at same time as Tiger game. Please reconsider. For All Tiger Fans!!!!!
Well, if it was up to me, it would be at a time when everyone could watch it with no conflicts, but at least it will be early in the game (game broadcast starts at 8:05)! I am hearing rumblings that they may change the debate time to 7 PM! That would be great - stay tuned! Nope! They couldn't work it out apparently. Free Press story.
WOOD-TV site says: The debate will also be available as a live video stream on WOODTV.com. After the debate, it will be available as on-demand video and a podcast from WOODTV.com. We'll have links to it when they put it up!
Wonder where the pictures are on Granholm's site she said she had while in Tokyo? Could not find them.
Dick needs to be a bit more prepared with more than just his commercial script and sound bites. Jen seems a bit to eager to go for the jugular though too. Why doesn't anyone point out what got us in this mess anyway? It can't be ALL Jen's fault. Both need to address the issues and not be so ready to attack. Give the job to Lee Iacooca and if there is not a 5% increase move him on.
Bill, found these photos of the Governor in Tokyo at a search for "granholm tokyo pictures".
Sometimes I wonder if anyone remembers any of the Amway scandals. Has anyone heard of Quixtar? It's funny how Alticor denies the fact that Quixtar has anything to do with them, yet if you work for Quixtar your check if from Alticor.
I also remember the members of my family going to war with Amway, after back in 1997 they tried firing all of their up-coming retires. Apparently, that is just what we need to head up the Michigan government; someone to fire those who are about to retire and someone to pull the wool over someones eyes. And lets not forget the fact that this man obviously knows what it's like work at General Motors or any other factory assembly line, or to worry about loosing a pension... I mean he is one of Forbes Worlds Richest Men.
One of Forbes Richest Men?? Must know how to handle money and run a Corporation? its time to let a buisness minded person take the reigns and turn this crappy economy around. Enough with the politicians and their double talk and constant finger pointing, " I inherited this mess" , "Its the last governors fault", enough already. I am voting for a change and if Granholm wins again, its time to relocate to Texas! GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joshua, Dick DeVos draws his wealth from his father, Rich DeVos, co-founder of Amway. If by running a corporation you mean presiding over his father's "business", a business built on unrealistic promises and funded by those who believed the promise, then yes, Dick DeVos has business experience.
I encourage you to read or watch the NBC Dateline special "In pursuit of the almighty dollar" before holding up Mr. DeVos's corporate experience as anything other than the reddest of red flags:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/
http://cpserverp4.com/bo/dateline_quixtar.wmv
I look forward to your response and hope that we can discuss this matter further. -Dave from Grand Rapids
I'm sure we've all seen the TV commercials. Granholm didn't do this, DeVos did that, etc. I want to hear what their plans are for Michigan. I'm sick of them bashing each other, lets get to the point. Commercials need to tell us what each candidate WILL do to help Michigan's struggling economy.
I'm from texas, but i'm attending MSU. One thing is clear to me. The difference between a dying economy and a thriving economny is diversification. When enron happened in houston, the city and state barely suffered a hiccup economically. Growth didn't stop...and the state is still a boom for jobs. Houston's economy was deversified into petrochemicals, oil, finance, and energy. Detroit is so heavily dependent upon the auto industry that its amazing that people didn't see this coming. DeVos's focus on cutting taxes won't help detroit. This is the same strategy that the big three are using right now. Cut costs, but fundementally change nothing. Our economy needs diversification. The governor has proposed rapidly expaning michigan's biotech economy. I think this is an excellent idea. It will attract high tech, high paying jobs to a state that is too dependent on manufacturing. This push for a more biotech focused economy just might bring back the big three (ethonal) and give a new life to the agricultural sector at the same time. We need solutions, not just patches.
It was like watching the Bush and Kerry OR Bush and Gore debates all over again "YIKES" I have tremendous respect for our Governor and understand the economy is hurting however, she is not a magician!! I have full trust in her to bring us back and REALLY, REALLY HOPE, PRAY, CROSS MY FINGERS that she has that opportunity. She's got my vote.
DeVos is just another mouthpiece. No answers, just BS. Talk
about a cult leader...not the kind of leadership we need.
We don't need to turn MI into another Amway cult. Let Jennifer
finish the job..she's on the right track. Remember it's taken
her 4 years to clean up Elglers crap. At least she can speak
with athority and from her heart. DeVos is as big of jerk as
bush..keep going that direction and there will be the Rich
Boys and the poor folks.
Dave, I encourage you to go back to the last election and the promises that Granholm made at that, they have turned out to be empty promises! What part of dead last in the nation dont you liberals get? The Govenor should take responsibility for what has happened on her watch and not just blame everyone else! And if that isnt a bunch of BS I dont know what is Arlene? Its the presidents fault, its Englers fault, its the Automakers fault, its the republicans fault. One thing my parent taught me is to take responsability for my actions. She is a great talker but talk is cheap, Devos made a great point, if she was CEO of a company she would have been fired a long time ago. Michigan isnt a company and too many peoples lives are affected by the choices and decisions that our politicians make. She has had her chance, its time to move on!I am voting for Devos and I will encourage everyone to do the same.
Joshua, I encourage you to go back to the last election as well. Start with this article from mLive:
http://www.mlive.com/printer/p.....amp;coll=1
Michigan's job losses didn't begin when Granholm took office. The state's employment slide began after the job market peaked in the summer of 2000. Granholm responds to the 100,000 job loss charge by noting that DeVos and the GOP are "quiet about the 240,000 jobs that left when (Republican) John Engler was governor."
The implosion of the auto industry is THE cause of Michigan's troubles. The factors that caused it are far beyond the ability of ANY Governor to fix overnight and were already there when she took office and had been building for over 50 years. To expect anyone, regardless of what side of the political fence they are on to fix this overnight is unrealistic in the extreme.
I hope you can acknowledge this. -Dave from Grand Rapids
PS: You're right about the diversification, Dave from Texas. I think we're on the right track.
Devos lost my vote. My wife felt the same way. I went into last night's debate clearly leaning to Devos. His not so subtile anger and vague on the specifics answers made me wonder how he got the nomination. After many years of working with low level labor talks, I know that most committeemen could get Devos angry and start him babbeling. He did not show me any of the qualities I think necessary to lead this state into a new economy.
The solution to Michigan's economic woes will take a generation at least. I'm afraid I will have to agree with Jennifer and 'stay the course' not go with Dick and 'wander around the course'.
First of all we are not voting for parties we are voting for people, either Dick Devos or Jennifer Granholm. Secondly Jennifer promised to turn our economy around and she hasnt (four years is a little longer than over night). Its not just the auto industry that is leaving Michigan, I work in Health care and I see hospitals and Doctors leaving because of our economy, our health system is taking care of uninsured citizens as well as the massive influx of illegal aliens. And there are numerous other buisnesses that have nothing to do with the auto industry that are leaving. A governor can help with tax incentives, and legislation to encourage new companies to come to Michigan as well as the companies that are still here (she didnt even mention those companies that have stuck with Michigan). I think that the Gubenatorial debate is a litle late to be discussing a 21st century jobs fund, she should have had this on the ground and running in her first hundred days as Governor. And if you are going to tell me that she was ignorant of what she was getting into when she took the job than I will tell you she shouldnt have applied for the job. She is full of great talk and no action, and I am tired of watching friends and family struggle to make ends meet and leave this great state. Right now a ham sandwich looks better than four more years of Jennifer Granholm!
Fred, Let me give you a little insight on Devos and his anger twords the blatent lies that the Granholm campaign has advertised against him. How is a share holder of a major Company responsible for what employees do to patients under their care? All of a sudden she makes you think he is abusing patients himself, thats a load of crap and I would be mad myself and want to set the record strait. When the questioner asked Granholm about the mudslinging in this campaign she completly dodged the question and began to rant about her plan for jobs. This Govenor is running a campaign to smear a man whos only crime is taking care of the company he was CEO of. Let me ask you this, how do you attract new buisnesses to Michigan when you have a history of attacking the buisnesses that are already in the state? Blamming Amway for conducting buisness and taking care of its interests is not a platform to be reelected. Again, She is all talk and no action, If you cant see that now you probably never will.
Joshua, the 21st century jobs fund is off the ground. Has been for a while now. In terms of Alterra, the central point of the Governor was that 1) DeVos had invested but not disclosed (true) and 2) that his representatives had control (also true).
Read (from November, 2001)
http://www2.jsonline.com/bym/n.....110201.asp
"We will continue our search for a permanent CEO for Alterra but do not expect to conclude our search until our restructuring is substantially completed," Jerry L. Tubergen, Alterra board chairman, said in a statement.
Tubergen is executive director of the RDV Corp., the investment vehicle of the DeVos Family, which owns 20% of Alterra.
To clarify, Tubergen, was Alterra board chairman AND also chairman of DeVos's investment corporation. Sometimes 1+1 does equal 2 no matter what some may wish it to equal.
Regarding your defense of Amway, I can only conclude that you did not watch the piece from NBC Dateline. You really should. In my opinion (one I share with many) Amway is not a company to be proud of.
Right now a job in Michigan is a job, I am not proud of alot of buisnesses in Michigan but if people are working and not depending on hand outs from the government than that is good for Michigan. In the words of a General in New Orleans after Katrina " your stuck on stupid", Granholm is not getting the job done, you can divert attention to Devos all you want but the bottom line is Michigan has the worst economy in the United States and you refuse to place blame where it belongs. She has had 4 years to change the environment for buisness in Michigan and has failed! You can continue the blame game but the facts are the facts and continuing to do things the same way and expecting different results is insanity. No one is perfect and you can pick apart anyone who applies for the job and find dirt, but I think Devos will work for Mihigan and bring the jobs here. Granholm could have and should have gone to Japan 10 times if thats what it took to bring those jobs here. Enough excuses, its time to fire Ganholm and Hire Devos!
Wow,
How could anyone even consider voting for Granholm. Do people live in Michigan?? Our economy is so bad, I am thinking of moving to another state within the next year. Not to mention she has done everything possible during her term to take away financial aid for students at private colleges. Sorry, but I don't think that I or anyone else in Michigan can afford to have her as governor for another term. Wake up and smell the downfall of michigan people. Either that or plan on moving away very soon because there are no jobs, which means we arent going to be able to stay near family any longer. When there is a choice between granholm and devos, it is not a hard decision. We need a fresh start, which we obviously cannot get from a lying pansy canadian who has basically destroyed michigan. Vote Devos, or dont vote at all!!
Shoegirl, Well said, Michigan cannot handle four more years of empty promises, If Granholm is reelected I am moving and I promise I wont be the only one. When the rest of the states are looking at booming economies and fair taxes why would you want to stay here? I love this state, I am a soldier and a hunter, I spend my free time enjoying our beautiful state and would hate to leave but I will have no other choice if Granholm wins reelection.
Shoegirl, I also agree completely! If Granholm wins, I'm out of here! I think it is really sad that this has to happen because I would love to be able to stay in michigan close to my family. It just won't be possible with Granholm as governor. Vote Devos so we at least have a chance of staying close to our families!
DONT THINK SO JOSHUA!!!!!!!
Joshua, Shoegirl and any other anti-Granholm person who comes along, May I suggest a little "Colbert Report or Jon Stewart". Laugh a little. That's what us "Liberals" do to keep sane (speaking for myself and well, almost everyone I know) in these LOVELY times. Yes, that's right, "I AM A DEMOCRAT" and have never been so proud to shout it out!! I do, however, have Republican friends(A few),Dumb as rocks but I gotta lov'em. Please tell me where exactly this country is actually "BOOMING". I realize that Walmarts are being placed on every corner but I'm not so sure that falls into the "BOOMING CATEGORY". I will also say, because I can, because that's what this website is for, that I dont think Granholm is going anywhere. To think that she will lose to Devos is seriously laughable. I am also sorry to hear that some of you will be leaving our Great State of Michigan -----YOU WILL BE MISSED!!!!
Wow Crystal, Thanks for the compliment!! Being the Republican that I am, all we have to do is have people like you speak for the democratic party & our job is done.
Granholm has MANY, MANY plans now that it is election time. What happened to the plans she had when she was voted in? The quality of life in Michigan has declined since she has become Govenor, not improved. She made promises she did not keep!! Why would any one with half a brain be gullible enough to believe her again??? I realize all can't be done in 4 years, but some improvements could have been made and haven't.
DeVos is not a slick speaker like Granholm, but my vote doesn't go to whoever speaks eloquently! Look at her ads, she is SHYSTER!!!! Misleading & out to smear, not to tell of all her accomplishments as Govenor!!
Well spoken Judy
Judy, I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else for that matter. As I said "I speak for myself". You are absolutely right. I would not be the prize speaker for the Democratic party. I dont have to tell anyone how ugly people get regarding politics. It's almost like a control issue and well face it if we had any control then Gore would be president today;)(just had to toss that in there). Democrats or Republicans, we see and hear what we want to see and hear, come election time especially, and I can not, for the life of me, see things the way you do and probably never will. Yes, I've seen the ads, not seeing the SHYSTER. I dont consider stating facts as smearing your opponent. This is what they do every election and it goes both ways. Yes, Michigan took a huge hit with the auto industry but you could not convince me that another Govenor would be handling it any better. You were right on the money though when you said it can't all be done in 4 yrs. She will never be able to please all of us all of the time but I think she is our best bet and I think the majority will agree.
Granhom's plans were put on hold when she go got into office and realized how much of Engler's dirty work she had to mop up before her plans could be put into action. How can you consider voting for a Man who out sourced his business, the very reason for our outrageous unemployment rate, to another country? If he were so devout to Michigan and really had Michigan economic future in his plans, I would have thought that he would have done his part and employed fellow Michigan residents and created jobs instead of taking them away. I have absolutley no use for Republicans, especially at this time. Jennifer Granholm, yes, has had a difficult time of it this term, however, I am confident that given a second term will be more than enough time for her to finish cleaning up after Englers and get on with her plans.
Also, another negative for DeVos I am have is hearing the rumor of his plans for all State Employees. Cutting back all state employees to 34 hours a week! That it taking away more jobs!!! This is an outrage... That is ranked up there with Engler cutting funding to all the Mental Health facilities and kicking mentally ill residents out on the streets to fend for themselves (which is something DeVos should know all too well about, since Grand Rapids high an extremely high volume of its homeless population who have serious mental problems and are unable to get jobs or care for themselves).
I have always been a moderate. and tried to look at both sides equally. but i am so distrusting in the Republican party right now, no thanks to the Presidential term, that i will not vote for DeVos. I truly do not feel that he has Michigan's best interest at heart. Its just a prestigeous title to add to his family's history.
Crystal, I think you should run for the leader of the Democratic party, you sound alot like Howard Dean, so continue with your mudslinging, you are making Jennifer proud. You cant argue the facts, things are no better now than when she took office, you are great at excuses though; it was Englers fault, its Bush's fault, its Amways fault. And Lacy, if you expect me to believe that Granholm didnt know what she was getting into four years ago when she ran for governor and mad all those wonderful promises, than she had no buisness running for the Job, and if she did than she is a Liar. Its time to quit making excuses and start acting like adults, take blame when you made promises and you didnt deliver.
Steve, is that the best you can come up with? Must have took you a few hours to think that up! " I dont think so Joshua" what is that supposed to mean? Get a clue Steve!!!!!!
DeVos is a complete idiot! I believe a third grade kid would have done a million times better than him.
Joshua, you're a spitfire I'll give you that, but the Howard Dean thing, "I LOVE THAT GUY" Just watching him put a smile on my face. I'm kind of leaning toward Barack Obama now though I do believe he will be president in the near future. As for Michigan, Just wait and see, your gonna be blown away!;) By the way, you forgot that it's also GM's fault and Ford's fault and Chrysler's fault and Delphi's fault and so on and so forth. I actually didn't blame anyone INCLUDING Granholm. Why is it that when Granholm is trying to explain a situation at hand such as Michigan's economy, she is immediately accused of making excuses and blaming others. All I heard her say is What is going on, Why it's going on and How she will continue to work toward fixing it when she is once again our Govenor (voted in by the majority) Sorry guy, I just don't see it happening for your man.
Crystal, dont count your chickens just yet, this race is just warming up. I think there are enough people tired of loosing jobs and your in for a suprise. I never said you made excuses, its your buddy Granholm or did you miss the debates? Its great to talk a big game but just ask the Yankees, talk is cheap.
Marina, I think a third grader could have come up with a better insult than that, Another liberal poster child, if we get enough of you and your mudslinging I think we may have a campaign ad!
In 1996 I started an online bulletin board called the Leelanau Forum. For about 8 years it was a great resource for the community to come together and discuss problems in a civil and productive manner.
I'm not sure if we actually solved that many problems, but it was helpful to be able to talk about things with people who might not necessarily agree with each other all the time. The key to it all was civility, something that too often seems to be lacking on or offline these days.
In the end, I had to pull the plug on the forum. My fondest hope is that Absolute Michigan could become a place where people can discuss the very weighty issues that face us: jobs, war, taking care of our elders and many more.
Not sure where I was going with this. Maybe it will be clear to someone else.
In any case, it's great to see people caring about the future and our upcoming election!
I am certanly enjoying this forum, I think it has been a great place to bloviate!
Joshua, If he talks like an idiot, looks like an idiot and walks like someone Foley got a hold of. Welll...Then.....?(I could NOT resist that, it was actually even less tasteful a couple weeks ago.) I'm voting for the girl.
Clinton for President "2008"!!!
Thats just what we need, another Monika incident in the oval office!Do you think if she wins she will return all the stuff her and her hillbilly husband stole when they left last time? But honestly, she doesnt stand a chance in 08, half of your part hates her, add that up and she has 3/4 of the country against her. You will have better luck with your global warming freak Al Gore. Just because Michigan tends to vote Democrat doesnt mean the rest of the country does! We have had control of congress since 1994 and the white house for 18 of the last 26 years. It doesnt take a college degree to figur that one out.
Crystal, you are my new poster child for the Demoratic party, check it out here: http://www.jokeawhenever.com/a.....craticseal
I think you will love this! Do me a favor listen to a little Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, I think there is still hope for you! Have a great day, see you at the Polls
As a college student, I was desperate for money so I considered working for Amway. I was quickly turned off. It was way too cult-like. They are all mindless clones. Governor Granholm can't be expected to turn the economy around in only 3 years after the huge deficit Engler left. Governor Granholm has an excellent plan for turning the state's economy around--check out her website. DeVos is just another corporate talking head.
I'm new to the state. I took an engineering (non-automotive) job about a year and a half ago. Yes, Michigan looks to be doing badly, and I'd consider voting for DeVos if he gave me a compelling reason to do so, other than because I shouldn't like Granholm.
He hasn't layed out a plan. The most I've heard is "read my 65 page thing on the web". As previously stated I HAVE A JOB I'm not going to read 65 page policy statements. Distill it down to say 4-6 bullet points and give it to us in the debate or an ad.
I'm optimistic about Michigan's economy. It looks like it's finally starting to get away from it's slavish dependency on the automotive industry. Google's coming. My company is expanding. Things are starting to, as Mr. Bush would say "turn the corner". Right now I'm leaning toward Granholm, but DeVos could win me over if he'd just give me a plan I could evaluate and decide if it's better or worse than Granholm's. He won't even give a plan for how he's going to replace the money from the Single Business Tax.
DeVos is a horrible public speaker. Yes, he may be a good business person, but doens't understand all the other issues - yes, jobs is big, but there are so many other issues in Michigan.
Granholm is a dynamic speaker who has had experience in the other issue. She is (and has tried) trying to boost the auto industry, be it homegrown or foriegn (lets face it everything is global now).
Granholm won the debate easily. I'm not sure what people see in DeVos.
Tim, Devos is not Granholm, thats what I see in him. She is full of promises and no action, she had me convinced last election that she was going to turn things around, four years later she has finally come up with a plan, give me a break. If you like the way things are in Michigan that keep voting for Granholm but if you want a change and think we can do better than last in the Country in unemployment than vote for Devos. This is not a complicated decision. I am soo sick of all the Excuses for Granholm, you cant turn things around in three years, well she has made things worse. Its time for a change and if in four years Devos hasnt turned things around than throw him out! I am certan he cant do any worse than Granholm.
Seth, it is completly up to you if you want to be an informed voter or not, you can listen to the mudslinging and watch a few debates but the fact is running a State cant be summed up in a few lines and debates dont give the time or the oppertunity to really lay out a plan. Its up to you, read his plan and see, you might be suprised. Unfortunatly we have become a fast food society, we want it our way now! Well to be an informed voter you need to take the time and do a little research. I also urge you to look up the propositions that are on the ballot this year, there are a few very important decisions we need to make that will affect alot of people. You can find them at Michigan.gov
Interesting to hear your take Seth. I agree with you that the MI economy does seem to be pciking up and diversifying at the same time. It would make sense to me that if MI has "turned the corner" that Governor Granholm should be reelected and able to continue with her jobs plan.
You would think after spending eight years as the head of Alticor that Dick DeVos could present clear and concise bullet points. However, he truly is a horrible speaker/debater and he can't cut through the fat to the core issues and describe his 65-page plan. He is so unclear that he even had problems following the 2nd debate regarding his position on abortion. As this article mentions, DeVos is strongly in favor of overturning Roe.
http://www.mlive.com/newsflash.....thispage=1
Joshua, you bemoan the fact that we have become a fast food society and rightly suggest an informed voter needs to do research.
I have read the campaign statements and I wonder if you could direct me to where Dick DeVos has detailed his plans to replace the 1.9 billion dollar Single Business Tax and the over 1.5 billion dollar personal property tax cut?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....6610110430
With this and with his "flip-flopping" on issues like abortion (actively opposed for years, supporting Michigan's laws on Monday, opposed again yesterday) and public education (opposed to the tune of $5 million, now a staunch supporter), it appears to me that candidate DeVos is quite handy with a campaign promise but has no plan explaining how he will honor those promises.
My mother taught me that a promise you have no intention of keeping should be called what it is: a lie.
I feel sorry for you people if Dick Devos gets elected. The team he is President of the Orlando Magic was caught paying $200,000 in hush money to one of his critics.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com.....-headlines
If you can't win on the merits, pay a bribe to keep the other side quiet. He talks about cutting the budget in Michigan but has no trouble taking almost a half a billion dollars for a new Arena from the little people to generate a bigger profit for his basketball team in Orlando. It is sad when you have to sit through a public hearing with a family worth BILLIONS crying poverty.
Dave, you are supporting a proven liar in Jennifer Granholm, so stop while you are ahead. Cutting taxes increases revenue, just look at the national economy! Why dont we cut some of these politicians salaries and expense accounts, that might make up the difference. Dont be mad that your candidate is going to loose this election.
Brad, Roe is bad law, read the first paragraph of the constitution and it should be clear. but no Governor is going to overturn Roe and to debate it is sensless, that is something that will be left to the Supreme Court not a State Governor. And as for Bill, if you dont feel sorry for the people of Michigan already with the state of our economy than you dont have a heart. Granholm has made things worse! You dont have to be an eloquent speaker to run a buisness or do a good job. I am sick of two faced liberals who Discriminate when it suits them! Have a great day!
Joshua are you aware you're almost 1/4 the posts on this item?
Sure makin promises that they may not be able to keep i misleading but being decietful is a god-given right to any politician? i mean look at George Bush, now if you want a poster child for blantant-disregard and obvious untruthfulness then there you have one. But isnt those promises what get them elected or are you so blind to only vote because there is an R or a D next to their name with out even knowing they are about... All i am saying is that this state will not benefit from DeVos as governor. And I am quite sure that Granholm knew exactly what she is getting into, but how would it sound if her campaign was 'I can fix the state of our economy, its just going to take 4 years'? no one with an ounce of want for the job would campaign that way. does it make it right? no. does every politician campaign with making huge promises that they may no be able to keep, if at all? yes.
You really need a life! Hope you find a new one in Texas after the election in November.
I think Granholm has done nothing for the Michigan economy. Nor can I say that Granholm has lost jobs for Michigan the Unions and and Car companies have lost jobs for Michigan but she didn't do anything about the jobs lost. And that is why she dosen't have my vote even though I stand a strong democrat.
Thanks Kay, it will be great as long as you are not there, and Steve glad to know you are reading, you might learn something, its fun telling you liberals how wrong you are!
The latest Granholm commercial has me beyond teed off!!
She is talking like she gives a hoot for our kids & our schools. Since my daughter has started school 4 years ago, yes all 4 years Jennifer has been in office, our schools have gone progressively downhill.
In the debate last week her 1st mention of this is that she applied for an extra $4,000 for our kids, by the end of the debate they were getting it. How's that?
She hasn't cared for 4 long years, now she's hot on it! If you believe this is genuine, then you are beyond ignorant.
Promises, promises.....& more promises. I'm still waiting for the fruit of the 1st 4 years.
Joshua, I love reading your responses!!! It is amazing how the gullible will fall for it again....How long does it take to learn this lesson Michigan???
Thanks Judy, I am sure that there are enough of us out here that are sick of the lies and empty promises that we are going to give Michigan a chance this time. Jennifer Granholms days in office are numbered and that means a better life for all of us, even those libs who just cant get a clue!
Joshua, you seem to have the idea that this is some kind of game. The Republican Party you are giving your blind support to is mortgaging our futures with dead-end wars and massive debts.
Did you happen to catch former GOP Majority Leader Dick Armey this morning on NPR suggesting that the GOP has lost sight of its principles in the quest to maintain its majority? In my opinion, nominating a man whose "business" was Amway fits that profile.
By the way, Joshua, I haven't heard what you thought of the Dateline profile of Amway. Are you just going to ignore that because it doesn't fit your image of Republicanism? Here are the links again:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/
http://cpserverp4.com/bo/dateline_quixtar.wmv
Wow, a game Dave....Our future & wanting the best for our state & not getting it with Jennifer Granholm's PROMISES is the only game be played that I see!
If more of the same is what you want then by all means cast your vote for her. Just remember, when you think it can't get any worse, it can and has with our present Govenor.
Dave, besides facism, communism, slavery, and now Terrorism war has never solved anything. No one is playing games here Dave, this is a serious as it gets! You can post your little drive by media stories and think what you want. The fact still remains your candidate is a bold faced liar and a damn good one. She talks a great game but thats where it ends, we will see again tonight how well she can lie to the Michigan people. I am not saying Devos is a perfect candidate but he is not Jennifer Granholm and that is saying alot. You libs really amaze me, you figt us on the Patriot act, you fight for AlQueda wanting them to have the same rights under the Geneva Conventions and worse than that the same rights as American citizens. You fight us on Illegal aliens in our country, trying to keep them here so they can vote for you. I dont get why you are so hard headed. And your only defense for Jennifer Granholm is an attack on Dick Devos, its no wonder so many people in Michigan are fed up with this Geovenor. Good luck Dave, you are going to need it and alot more come November 7th.
I was going to vote for DeVos but he talked himself out of my vote. He is not the same person his TV ads are selling.
I believe Granholm spent a lot of time at the beginning of her first couple years cleaning up the money mess the last republican left Michigan taxpayers. We forget that the Michigan legislature is controlled by Republicans. In spite of that she is making progress. Now she is hot on bringing companies to Michigan.
Thank you DeVos for reminding me how hard Mrs. Granholm works for us.
Here we go again, blamming everyone else but Granholm for the economy and her poor performance in the past four years. Some people will never get it but thats ok, there are enough of us who see through her rhetoric and lies and she is gone come Nov 7th. The only hard work Granholm has done is lying to protect her job. And because someone isnt as eloquent a speaker or as good a lier doesnt mean they cant do the job. Devos isnt perfect but he sure isnt Granholm and that is a huge improvement!!!!!
You are right about one thing Joshua, SOME people will "NEVER GET IT" It makes me want to pull my hair out reading this sh@!#tuff (that you republicans try to force feed us "liberals"). Can you give me ONE piece of information on how Granholm could have stopped what happed to our Auto Industry, the BIGGEST fall of our economy, just one, I am open minded enough to take it into consideration. And not another "Oh lets make fun of a democrat today" picture please. Thankyou.
Ask both candidates where they plan to recover the Small Business Tax Cut revenue; new business taxes on profits; new taxes on home owners(which Gov. Engle reduced thru consitutional amendment to allow retires on fixed income to remain in Michigan); or spending cuts. Neither the Republicans or Democrates want to state their solution to this issue.
Sure I give you the Auto Industry was self destructing on its own with no help from Jennifer Granholm. Yet she campained to turn Michigan around and four years later, here we are and OH MY GOD she has another plan and it will only take five more years. She is full of it as are you Crystal, I am glad to see that we are getting under your collar, must mean we are right! No pun intended. But more than jobs, what has she done for law enforcement?? What has she done about education?? What has she done about our prisons and letting felons out early?? And lets not even start with education, she is a failure and is going to be looking for a job just like thousands of Michiganders!!!!!!!
I thought everybody came here by choice Crystal, I didn't realize some of us were FORCED to read this. Yet alone being force fed, maybe you need a new keeper! Or definately better yet a NEW Govenor:)
Crystal, take heart in knowing that the responses noted above, in reply to your posting, only reflect the immature and mean-spirited mind set of those blinded by corporate-thinking, and not that of the hard-working grass-roots people of Michigan that know the truth. Let them continue to babble...you're above them and there is no need to reply to those who seem bent on getting a defensive last word in on a futile power struggle attempt.
How eloquent Diane, But if you where to have read the majority of these comments you would know that it has been ugly on both sides of the debate as it should be. We are fighting for things we beleave in and who runs this state is extreamly important! We all may not be as eloquent or snobbish as you but some of us are right!
Oh and by the way, you never answered any of my questions, your just like the governor, I am sure shes gonna be dodging questions all night!!!!
You know Joshua, you scare me. It is people like you that give all of us Republicans a bad name and iamge. Yes, thats right... I as a Republican can not stomach the thought of Dick DeVos as Govenor of the State of Michigan. Jennifer Granholm has not kept her promises...they all promise none of them can ever keep all of their promises.... even our side. DeVos is bad news for Michigan. Folks like you make me embarrased to be a Republican. Granholm has my vote because I am scared to death of what will happen to the State of Michigan under Dick Devos... so again I say... have a good life in your new State of Texas.
No one is any more up in arms in their posts than you seem to be.
Diane I have to say you must not have read Chrystal's comment of once again cutting people down. Are you not reading the same thing as me?
As for Grass roots, I am a very hard working single mother of 3 who gets no state aid, no child support or any other help. Don't presume to know me by the way I will cast my vote. ANYBODY has got to be better than Granholm. She has done nothing & continues to do nothing for this great state of Michigan & the people. She now has PLANS.....I'm sorry she took 4 years to come up with them. 4 YEARS!!!!
The ingnorance of some people just amazes me!!
I am a former 25 year resident of San Diego, California & have been here in the heart of Michigan for 6 years now. I could not believe the poverty levels when I came here & they continue to get worse. Something has to be done. Unfortunately our present Governor is lacking in the skills to bring this about. Another 4 years is way too much of the people of Michigan's time for her to come up with more excuses, promises & plans that aren't enacted.
I think everyone should get off the personal attacks and stick to facts. It is a fact Governor Granholm has not been able to get her agenda out because the Republicans control and have controlled the Michigan House and Senate for the past 14 years. It is a fact Engler left office with a $4billion dollar deficit, which is a violation of Michigan law. It is a fact DeVos and his wife Betsy are firm believers all workers in Michigan make too much in wages and benefits and support Right to Work in Michigan. In fact, the Republicans introduced two bills to the Commerce Committee which if passed, will make Michigan a Right to Work state. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workers in Right to Work States such as Missouri, Indiana and Kentucky just to name a few earn on average $8,000 per year less while paying for the majority if not all of their medical insurance costs. I write this a long time, 23 year Air Force veteran and long time Republican - until now. I've gone Independent and there is no way in heck I'll support any Republican candidate this year nor in two years. It is time to take the power intoxicated party to the cleaners and let the pendulum swing the other way to see where we go.
Diane, I thank you for that, however I will respond because "I" was able to pull that great big stick out of "MY" rear years ago. Life is way too short to be so serious. Judy I apoligized to you once I will not do it again. My comments have ALL had an OBVIOUS comical and not to be taken to heart flare to them. Apparently you missed that. And Joshua, just when I thought we were getting along and able to discuss things like civil people,--you had to go and get nasty. Your questions, I can tell you from personal experience that I took advantage of one the the work force training programs she refers to and I am doing alright for myself. Law enforcement we have to all take part in. Counties vote on proposals to beef up law enforcement in their area. Is that what you are referring to? Prisons and felons, I dont know anything about those why dont you enlighten me with your fury of knowledge.
General:
I'm upset with the marketing methods used in politics these days.
The only people who choose a candidate by how badly they cut down there opponent are those whose education levels aren't high enough to realize just how badly they are hurting themselves.
I don't personally care for either the Democrat or Republican parties right now, but when I see Devos' argument based completely on how bad the encumbent is doing, but offering NO alternative but rhetoric and false analogies with vague comments thrown in IT SCARES ME! This is what we have right now in Bush! Someone who bullies our government into going his way by threatening to sling dirt on anyone who goes against him!
Oh, and commenting on an opponents comments while he/she is talking is rude and unprofessional.
Judy,
As a Californian myself (born in Sacto), I've been living here a bit longer (14 years) and remember how much worse places like Detroit were just 10 years ago and how corrupt things were under Engler.
Vote with your mind, Your heart is too easily fooled.
Crystal, maybe I can shed some light on the Law Enforcement and Corrections issues. You see, I retired from the Air Force as a Federal Agent, went to work as Michigan State Police Emergency Dispatcher and then moved to a position within Corrections. I've seen the tax cuts passed by the Republican Party continuously and seriously cut law enforcement and corrections staffings. You can see the results of the budget cuts by the highly publicized Selepak case which resulted in the tragic loss of lives. There simply are not enough Probation/Parole Agents or Correctional Staff (Officers, Health Care, Support) and the prisons are nearing the breaking point. A recent study conducted by an independent firm disclosed Michigan is understaffed in the Probation/Parole area by 340 Agents. However, the funding level only supports the hiring of 40 Agents. The tax cuts passed by the Republicans also impacted on the revenue sharing monies sent to every community by the Michigan Government. Additionally, the U.S. Senate/House, also controlled by the Republicans, at the insistence of President Bush, cut funding for the Community Policing program. So you see, Governor Granholm isn't responsible for the loss of police and fire protection in your communities and it is time WE THE PEOPLE hold those responsible, responsible.
Wow Gary, Thank you, If I have any more questions about ANYTHING AT ALL, I know who to ask.
You heard the Governor " All hands on deck", I would add women and children first if she is reelected. Blame, Blame, Blame, Blame, Blame. Thats all you libs are about, I guess some things will never change, fortunatly for us we can vote this Governor out!
Dick DeVos cannot, will not answer how he will pay for his tax cuts. He is a liar and a fraud.
Propose, propose, propose. Still after all this time. I don't seem to be hearing about Jennifer's successes in the last 4 years. Plenty of proposals, nothing solid though. Not from Jennifer herself or anyone else for that matter.
I will definately vote with my Mind. It breaks my heart to see this poverty. I'm not well off, I live week to week. I lived in the meth capital of the world & never saw this much neglect for the people of a state.
Trust me Crystal, I am not asking for an apology. I guess if you knew me also, you would know that those were comical undertones to my comments to you. I am not taking it seriously:)Please you don't either
Wow Steve, what an insightful comment! Cuting taxes encourages buisnesses to invest capital which puts more money in the pockets of the people whoi spend the money and create revenue. Its not that hard to understand, its working in the Federal Government and it can work in Michigan. And dont throw the deficit thing in my face, revenue for the federal government is at an all time high, yes spending is up but we have had 911 and two wars to deal with. The fact still remains that tax cuts have brought us out of a recession and have made the economies of 49 states better than they where 6 years ago.
Did we watch the same debate? Every time DeVos opened his mouth he was blaming Granhom for something. According to DeVos, every loss within the past 4 years is her fault because it took place under her watch. I'm surprised he didn't blame her for the Pistons and Red Wings losing in the playoffs. Or the early snowfall this year. He is great at pointing out all of Michigan's misfortunes. I'd much rather hear one his plans for restoration. How will he restore the economy in 4 years when it has been dependent on the aouto industry for 100 years. Should he win he must completely overhaul and produce a thriving economy in 4 years or all lies shall be exposed.
First of all, Jenniger Granholms lies have been exposed from her last campain! Argue that!!! Secondly, it is the Governors place to take the blame, the buck had to stop somewhere and she takes no responsibility for any of it! You may think that Devos is playing the blame game, instead he is just pointing out facts. We watched the same debate, you just missed what happened!
So if DeVos wins the state's economy will be completely turned around in 4 years?
We will have gained jobs and not lost jobs, we will have created an environment friendly to new buisness as well as take care of the buisnesses that are struggling. Things will be better and not worse. This is a no brainer, if the person you elect doesnt get the job done you fire them! It has been four years and all we have are proposals and a bunch of promises that meant nothing. If you want four more of the same than vote for Granholm.
Wait! We gave Granhom 4 years to restore the economy. She didn't do it. I don't want to see DeVos just "improve" our econmy I want to see it restored completely within his four years. "Improvement" is too vague a term. It can be twisted by either side to reflect their arguement. Will he restore our economy in 4 years? Yes or No?
Well Carl, I want world peace and a magic Genie! But to answer you