Comments on: 2006 Michigan Elections, Voting & Politics: Granholm vs. DeVos, Michigan vs. Itself

By: farlane

farlane — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:59:57 +0000

OK, I have put together (more or less) the statewide results. I'm locking comments here and continuing discussion of the election here. I don't understand the mole comment though. Seems just plain mean, Sarah.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:46:04 +0000

Oh great, another term with little miss moleface. What a lying piece of scum we have for a governor, and whats worse is that michigan VOTED for her! how embarresing, other states are probably laughing at us right now. Michigan is down the tube. Moles and all.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:32:01 +0000

What about Rudy?

By: LJ

LJ — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:23:22 +0000

Very upbeat and we should all want to work together - too bad many of the politicians in both camps are so negative about the other.

As for Newt Gingrich - I have been in GA for almost twenty years after living my first 40 in BEAUTIFUL MICHIGAN. Had Newt been in Michigan you would be short many state and federal parks, and there has never been a beautiful site that he hasn't wanted to build a house on - with federal funds - AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!

By: Joshua

Joshua — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:33:58 +0000

I am really dissapointed about the Mourning doves, but oh well. I hope that we can put the partisanship behind us and move foreward as the Governor said last night, I truly do hope that we can improve Michigan and our Nation as a whole. I hope that all of the speech is more than just rhetoric and that we can all work together. So Congradulations to Governor Granholm and to Senator Stabenew. I think it is good that the house and the senate are split and I want to see them work together for Michigan. I dont regret how I voted and would vote the same way again, but I do not hold any hard feelings whatsoever! Lets get to work, Get rid of the SBT and bring jobs back to Michigan and train those who need training to fill the jobs that are here. Thanks to everyone who has takent the time to debate the issues on this site and even though I felt alone most of the time I really enjoyed the discussions we had. See you back here for the 08 elections. I really like Newt Gingrich, but think Rudy Giulliani would make a Great President and could bridge the gap between the parties!

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:18:36 +0000

Now we just have to bite nails about the Senate, but what an election.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:17:10 +0000

Joshua:

I am not going to gloat or say I told you so, but yipee!

We will finally have some change now.

By: Liza

Liza — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:23:06 +0000

DeVos concedes... how about you Joshua??? I really hope you were kidding when you said you would move to Texas if Granholm wins. If not... happy trails.

By: Lacy

Lacy — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:05:51 +0000

checkmate. One more term for Granholm.

By: Cris

Cris — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:24:11 +0000

Good news from the Detroit News:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb...../611070432
When Michigans unrelentingly conservative daily rolls over and concedes the election, I feel I can relax. Ahhhh...
It looks like Jenny crushed the 40 million dollar man. Great news!
That being said, the gist of the Detroit News editorial posted above is on the money in many ways. Dear Jenny: Now the hard work begins.
I have high hopes, but also high expectations, not just of the re-elected Governor but also and equally the Legislature. I hope ALL of them can get past "campaign mode" and get on with the business of getting my beloved state back on track. Let's all hope so.
Finally...Joshboy..even an incredible 40 million+ dollars couldn't convince Michigans voters that your boy was up to the job. I think DeVos will end up spending almost 10 dollars a vote (maybe more)...not just for HIS votes, but for every vote. Amazing. It's a good thing he's better at selling soap in China than he is at selling himself to his fellow Michiganders.
Another good bit of news is that Debbie Stabenow has cleaned Sheriff Bouchard's clock. He should have talked about "that dating thing" with his daughter, I guess.
A good night to be a Democrat, even though I'm not one.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:25 +0000

I completly disagree with Seth, this gives the power to the people and lets us make the decision, instead of partisan bikering and watered down legislation these proposals are strait foreward and to the point. We need to make these important decisions and I support the process of ballot initiatives.

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:04:00 +0000

For what my two cents is worth I disagree with the idea of ballot initiaives all together. Why should I have to do the legislature's job? It's sad to say but as politicians they're probably more informed than I about the consequences of manipulating public funds. That's why I voted no on them all.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:31:16 +0000

I hink we can come up with a better idea than Prop 5, we need to push our legislature regardless of who wins to address the needs of our children, we need to hold those elected accountable to us, not just at the polls but during their terms. I have made a point to contact each and every representative, Senator, Governor, and President when something that matters to me needs attention, I encourage all Americans to do the same. I am going to vote no on 5, we can find a better way to deal with this issue while trying to keep our budget on track.

By: farlane

farlane — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:34:00 +0000

Cris, I think Prop 5 is not the best idea. However, a worse idea is letting our legislators continue to treat school funding in the same cavalier manner that they have for the last several years. The cost of running a school is going up far, far faster than the funding for schools, and while Prop 5 may force a budget crisis, it won't be the middle of the night, end of June crisis that the legislature has seen fit to foist on schools in recent years. That Kevin Hall article, Income gap between America's families is growing, study finds was pretty interesting.

By: Cris

Cris — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:25:03 +0000

I don't think that affirmative action or a ban on some form of it belongs in the Constitution. I'll vote to let it stand until I'm convinced that there is no racism or sexism in Michigan. In other words: a long time. Adjustments can and are being made as situations and conditions change, but not by Constitutional amendment. Overkill.
Doves, on the other hand, are cute, sound nice, love my back yard, and are delicous when lightly grilled with salt, pepper and a quick rubdown of Worchestershire sauce. They are hunted in most states and are NOT target practice. I haven't hunted in 26 years, by the way.
Cows, sheep and chickens and deer are cute, too. What's the difference, other than not many of us have chickens or cows in our yard. Here in the North, we all have deer in the yard.
What's your take on 5, Farlane? I can't see voting for it.
The vast and growing gap between the middle class and the richest citizens is a big problem and will be a key issue in the future.
An article in last Sunday's Free Press by Kevin G. Hall spells this disparity out pretty clearly and in an even handed way. Worth a look.
I hope everyone gets out and votes today, especially supporters of our Governor and Senator.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:11:31 +0000

Its bigger than the doves, I personally would never hunt a dove, but I cannot let the special interest groups that are against all hunting have their way with this proposal. I dont know many people who would hunt them and my wife is going to kill me for voting yes on 3 but I feel it is important, especially in a world full of anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-sportsmen groups that have some pretty powerful lobbyists.

By: farlane

farlane — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:53:35 +0000

I would love to be able to cast a vote for Bill Milliken today, Cynthia.

I checked out Thom Hartmann, Jenny. Any writer who asks "What would Jefferson do?" gets a plus in my book. The excerpt from that book was interesting (click link, then click "Excerpt"),�� saying minimum wage has fallen 17% (and middle class incomes by 10%) since the start of the Reagan presidency, and that 80% of lower and middle class homeowners spend HALF of their income on housing. For my money, those aren't numbers we should take pride in.

Another interesting fact re: unemployment rates, if you're unemployed over 18 months, in addition to losing unemployment benefits, you are removed from the unemployment stats. I was not aware of that.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:46:59 +0000

Joshua:

I think I will vote against 5 too, but I am still mulling it over.

What do you have against mourning doves? They are not the other white meat! They don't have much meat so they would just be target practice. It is one thing to hunt for food, but that is just cruel!

I also have to vote after work.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:25:27 +0000

I too am voting yes on 2, I am voting yes on all but 5, I dont believe the hype and think it is more about the teachers than the students and classrooms. Good luck and try to stay dry, I will have to vote tonight aftr work so hopefully the rain will clear out.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:13:40 +0000

Farlane:

I read that article about Milliken, great stuff. I loved Whitman, I lived in NJ when she was Governor and she did a great job. I voted for her!

We need more people like that, but they seem scarce these days.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:31:01 +0000

Joshua:

Good luck to you too! I will be out in the rain voting.

Somebody has to care about the poor mourning doves.

As for 2, I hope it passes, I really do!

I am still undecided about 5, but I am voting yes for everything else except 3.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:28:02 +0000

Joshua:

��nor can we stay the course��

I meant to say, I am glad to hear you admit that!

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:27:23 +0000

"You don��t expect turnout to be impressive in Detroit? Yeah, I��m sure nobody in Detroit is worried about that silly Proposal 2 thing"

If they care, they had better, because lots of people (like me for example) will be at the polls voting for it.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:20:21 +0000

Joshua:

"nor can we stay the course"

By: Joshua

Joshua — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 03:45:42 +0000

They arnt, they look at the polls and think everything is locked up so why bother. Look at the Primaries, the lowest turn out for either party in recent memory, what makes you think this election will be any different than the last? Both Gubernatorial candidates are against Prop 2. Cris is right, Democrats are not as good as Rupublicans at turn out, tomorrow will be no different, especially if there is alot of rain. Granholm said it herself, "democrats dont like to get wet". All we can do now is wait and see what happens. Good luck to all and I cant wait to start debating the 08 Presidential elections!!! I like Gingrich myself!!

By: Jenny

Jenny — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:30:16 +0000

Joshua,

You don't expect turnout to be impressive in Detroit? Yeah, I'm sure nobody in Detroit is worried about that silly Proposal 2 thing.

By: Cris

Cris — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:28:38 +0000

The political snarling and barking that goes on is nothing new...we just have a lot more places to hear it repeated over and over to us.
Out and out polarization...demonization of opposing views..probably IS on the increase. Both sides use it, to one degree or another, but the Right has a fairly unique forum, talk radio, that gives them an unrestricted voice and allows some of the worst demagoguery a large audience with virtually no opposing views. This is a very popular medium, widespread and with avid listeners.
When I read Jen's story about being at the Bridge walk and her encounter with Mr. Foul-Mouthed Family Values, the first thing I thought of was "there's an avid talk radio guy". This idiot doesn't see the difference between the rants of a radio entertainer and real ife spent around real people. Kind of like scary movie fans who get spooked by creaks and funny noises in their own house...they've lost a crucial ability to separate fact from entertainment.
If one cares (don't bother) to look back at some of Joshboys posts on the earlier message board, you'll find a whole lot of talk radio dialogue.."you libs, this...you Democrats, that...", lots of name calling, and a favorite talk show trick: behaving badly, then acting outraged and "disappointed" while accusing the opposition of the very transgression you've just committed.
Both sides are guilty of a version of this.
I won't sleep until I know the outcome tomorrow night. It's a fact that Republicans just are better at getting their people to the polls. I wish it wasn't so, believe me.
I don't have too much faith in the metro Detroit turnout, and will be very pleasantly surprised if the turnout is high. Maybe the prop 2 issue will drive people to the polls like Gay marriage, etc. brings out the Republican conservative vote. I hope so, but I have little reason or experience to believe it will be the case.
I don't need clip n paste to say, with all sincerity, that the war in Iraq is a huge, expensive and tragically deadly MESS. Joshua: Look up HUBRIS. It applys here, in spades.
After 4 years, the capital of the country has electric power for less than 6 hours a day, neither oil nor fresh water is flowing in a significant way, and thousands are dying in an out-and-out civil war, and many of the 300,000 or so Iraqis we have trained are AWOL in one fashion or another. Think ARVN in the Viet Nam war.
I wasn't going to do a clip/paste, but a very recent survey by that wildly partisan organization WorldPublicOpinion (affiliated with the U of Maryland's School of Public Policy) has some VERY disturbing results, especially when you compare them to US policy and plans as articulated by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld.
http://www.worldpublicopinion......mp;lb=brme
Read it and weep. This is how we are "greeted as liberators".

I'll be glad when the campaigning is over...sick of the TV garbage, the auto phone calls and push polls.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:35:47 +0000

Three tours is alot but the fact still remains that the troops believe in what they are doing and are reenlisting in record numbers and I see veterans returning to service after being out becasue they believe in what we are doing.

Regardless of what your opinion of why we went to war, we are at war and we cannot just cut and run, nor can we stay the course, we need a new plan to win and bring our troops home as heros! I know this administration has made mistakes and needs to keep the politics out of war and let our troops finish what they started. But I cannot and will not vote for those who plan to cut funding for our troops and plan to leave them haniging out to dry.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:25:20 +0000

Joshua:

What I said is my friend said he will not go back a fouth time as it has become much too dangerous (and he is no coward). He says it is out of control there. He almost lost his life a few times already.

Believe me, I do thank him.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:11:45 +0000

Jenny, he may not take Detroit but there is more to Michigan than Detroit. Not to mention that Granholm didnt support Detroits Mayor in his last election so I dont expect turnout to be all that impressive in Detroit.